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PTP (Parallel Track Path) for DVD DL

 
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Undertaker
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:38 pm    Post subject: PTP (Parallel Track Path) for DVD DL Reply with quote

Hi...I see that Gear Pro Mastering can create PTP DVD-Rom ecc. (beyond OTP)..

But as far as I know at the moment there are no DVD Burners that write in PTP on DVDs DL and balnk DVDs DL are only OTP...

I see the DVD-R DLs specifications and I see that their Writing Path can be OTP and PTP (also if PTP DVD-R DL doesn't exist at moment)...

I would Know if DVD-Rs DL could be really in PTP...??

If PTP blank DVDs don't exist or they will never exist, why you add PTP opz in Gear Pro Mastering?

I post DVD-R DL specifications (pdf format)....

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_3424/60891660DualLayerTechPaper.pdf
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neilwilkes
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AFAIK, All DVD-Video are OTP.
DVD-ROM can be PTP though.

Reason all DVD-V are OTP is to minimize the effect of the layer break, as if it were PTP the player would go from inner to outer, then scan back to the inner ring again and go out as before.
The necessity for OTP is the reason that Layer 1 must be shorter than Layer 0, so the break literally invokes nothing more than a simple refocussing of the laser, and not a time wasting scan.

My Pioneer DVR-109 can easily write a DVD-ROM in PTP, just not a DVD-V disc as it goes against the specs of the format.
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Undertaker
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, but I already Know the reason of OTP for DVD-Video and PTP for DVD-ROM...ecc......

My question is another..

At the moment it's impossible does a 1:1 copy of a PTP DVD on balnk DVD DL..For example, If you try to burn GT4 (PTP PS2 DVD-ROM) on blank DVD DL (that are only in OTP at the moment)..the copy doesn't work..

DVD+Rs DL are OTP and also DVD-Rs DL are OTP, but second that specifications, DVD-Rs DL are also PTP...

If I create in Gear Pro Mastering a new DVD-ROM (8.5GB) project and select Parallel Track Path in opz when I burn on Blank DVD DL the Trak Path will not be Parallel, but will be Opposite (because the blank media is only OTP)..So why PTP opz is present in Gear Pro also If at the moment there are no PTP DVDs DL...and burners?

I hope that I explane clearly the situation (I am italian, so sorry for my english.)
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neilwilkes
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Reason you can't do a 1:1 copy of stuff like GTA4 is because it is heavily copy protected.
Simple.
You cannot use GEAR to copy games.

I'm also going to ask Pioneer about this. Just for info.
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Undertaker
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT4 is only an example...

GT4 hasn't protection..The reason that GT4 cannot be 1:1 backupped is the Track Path..in PTP..

GT4 is PTP, instead blank DVD-R DL and DVD+R DL are OTP...this is the reason..

But GT4 is only an example...The truth is that at the moment it's impossible create a PTP DVD-ROM on a blank DVD DL and I want only Know why PTP option is present in Gear Pro Mastering if it's impossible does it.
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neilwilkes
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where do you find that DVD-R DL is OTP only?
+R DL is pre formatted as OTP, as are all +R discs pre formatted.

But I can find nowhere anything that tells me the -R DL is preformatted to OTP.
Links?
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Tom Vaughan
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason that GEAR PRO Mastering Edition allows you to create PTP projects is that professionals use GEAR to format PTP masters. They write these masters as DDP images. The masters are used to mass replicate DVDs.
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Undertaker
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

neilwilkes wrote:
Where do you find that DVD-R DL is OTP only?
+R DL is pre formatted as OTP, as are all +R discs pre formatted.

But I can find nowhere anything that tells me the -R DL is preformatted to OTP.
Links?


You see that DVD-R DL are pre-formatted OTP using programs such as DVDInfoPro ecc....
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neilwilkes
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not tried this, I must say.

But as Tom says, the PTP option is there for mastering to DDP and/Or DLT, which makes games written to PTP almost a form of deliberate copy protection, in it's own little way.
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Undertaker
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

neilwilkes wrote:
Not tried this, I must say.

But as Tom says, the PTP option is there for mastering to DDP and/Or DLT, which makes games written to PTP almost a form of deliberate copy protection, in it's own little way.


But this DDP and DLT are only for professional use or it's possible buy them.... for home usage...

However, Can you ask Pioneer about DVD-R DL specifications that also you have seen..?
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Tom Vaughan
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Undertaker,
DDP is only used by professionals. It is the format for the DVD master that is sent to the factory for mass replication. The encoder on the laserbeam recorder reads the DDP image in order to cut the glass master. The glass master is electroplated, in order to create nickel stampers. The stampers are loaded into an injection molding machine (one for each layer), creating DVD disc substrates (0.6 mm thick). The layer 0 substrate is partially metalized with silver, to a reflectivity of about 30%. The layer 1 substrate is coated with a fully reflective layer of silver (if I recall correctly, the reflectivity is almost 90%). The 2 substrates are bonded together, with the information layers on the inside. This is how pre-recorded DVDs are made.

Recordable DVDs, on the other hand, are manufactured with a "pre-groove". The burner follows the pre-groove during recording. This means that the burner doesn't have to have super-precision mechanical components, like massive air bearings and linear motors (with interferometer linear scales) in order to precisely space the tracks 0.74 microns apart. The laserbeam recorder creates a DVD-R (or DVD+R) master with a pre-groove, and the DVD burner has a servo tracking system that can follow the pre-groove. The pre-groove also has a slight wobble which contains timing information. The burner can read the wobble, and synchronize the rotation speed to the wobble signal.

So, anyhow... there is a big difference between replicated DVDs (mass produced, pre-recorded, no pre-groove, no dye layer, etc.) and recordable or duplicated DVDs (burned by a DVD recorder onto a dye layer, on top of a pre-groove).

I hope this helps you more than it confuses you!
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Undertaker
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. Thank you for the answers and the patience...
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